The Brad Hole

The Aspyr support page still lists the patch that's been out for a while now, the one that fixes the eMac full screen issue. Did you update the link but not the site?

Also, I'm still waiting on those "performance issues", that I hope will fix the bugs I'm having on the Underworld level that makes the game unplayable... :(

Oh yes, say hello to this blog being sydicated on livejournal:
http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=brad_oliver
(yep, I created it).

Okay, I'm tired. That's why this post is incoherent and complaining. Bad first impression, though. Sorry. :)

Okay, this might me a bit off-topic, but Brad, I understand you work from home with a G5 supplied by your employer (I read this from the blog entry documenting your new G5 being delivered, and I had something to say then as well)

Why don't you post us a few pics of your work-area. I saw this type of thing on the MacNN forum and find it kind of fascinating.

Oh well, thanks for all the hard work you've done on KOTOR.

*hugs KOTOR box**

Regards,

Francois.

"The Aspyr support page still lists the patch that's been out for a while now, the one that fixes the eMac full screen issue. Did you update the link but not the site?"

I'm not in control of our website or when things get posted to it, so I'm not real sure what's up with our own KOTOR support page. However, if you click on the link in my blog entry, you can grab the patch from MacGameFiles.com.

"Also, I'm still waiting on those "performance issues", that I hope will fix the bugs I'm having on the Underworld level that makes the game unplayable."

I'm not sure what you're waiting on, exactly. If you're having performance issues there, provided you're running 10.3.4 or higher, odds are they'll only be solved by a significantly faster Mac or a much better video card (depending on what you have now). Future patches of KOTOR are very unlikely to offer any significant performance increases - it's optimized pretty tight as it is.

"The Aspyr support page still lists the patch that's been out for a while now, the one that fixes the eMac full screen issue. Did you update the link but not the site?"

I just double-checked our site, and it correctly lists the 1.03b patch, so I'm not sure if we updated it after you posted or you're seeing something entirely different. I should point out that the patch is cumulative, so the list of changes on our site contains those from both the 1.03a patch and this one.

Hmm, you are correct. Checking the site, I see that it is updated--either I was too tired when I wrote it, or they added a sentence onto the end when I wasn't looking.
"I'm not sure what you're waiting on, exactly. If you're having performance issues there, "
Well, I've been talking with Aspyr tech support, and they have said "We are currently looking into performance issues with this game and hope to have some information regarding this soon.", and "We have seen a few instances of this issue and are currently investigating it. " (I was thinking of the former)--what happens is on the Underworld, game movement is screwed up--whenever I move by pressing a key, 80% of the time the game will:
a) not move me, just give my character a "legs up" change, like I'm running into an invisible wall and then
b) move me until I hit a wall/person/etc (even if I just push the key quickly and let go).
"If you're having performance issues there, provided you're running 10.3.4 or higher, odds are they'll only be solved by a significantly faster Mac or a much better video card (depending on what you have now). "
Yes, it's not performance per se (sorry to mislead you, I'm using an eMac 1.25gz with 1gb of memory--the current model, which is not too high above the requirements, but I do play with low graphics and it'll handle the aboveground/lower city scenes pretty well, but just not on the underworld).

Well, just in case you want more info (or other minor bugs I'm finding), I posted up a thread on the Ambrosia Software forums (
http://www.ambrosiasw.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=88308 ), and my case numbers with tech support are: 218797/218651/218549/221425. They recently suggested that I try a new username, which I will do posthaste (I'm quite busy right now)

It's just gotten me to stop playing KOTOR, which is quite a shame, since it is a great game. Sorry to hijack your blog post, though.

"what happens is on the Underworld, game movement is screwed up--whenever I move by pressing a key, 80% of the time the game will:
a) not move me, just give my character a "legs up" change, like I'm running into an invisible wall and then
b) move me until I hit a wall/person/etc (even if I just push the key quickly and let go)"

This "wacky movement" is a telltale sign that your Mac is too slow for this portion of the game. This particular issue won't be solved by a patch - it'll only resolve itself if you get a faster video card or CPU. It's an issue that's also present on similarly-configured PCs.

I've posted a detailed description of why in the IMG forums - you can probably search on my name for the post that describes it in detail, if you're curious.

" it'll only resolve itself if you get a faster video card or CPU. It's an issue that's also present on similarly-configured PCs."
Damn--there's nothing I can do? Can't reduce the number of polygons any further via some ini file or something? I paid for this game, and I want to be able to use it before the next new computer (which will be in two years, probably).

It does annoy me, though, that my computer is above the requirements (except on the video card, which is most likely what's killing me), and this is happening--I'm very used to running games on minimums or below minimums, and when I actually have a computer with BETTER specs, it refuses to run.

Yep, found your post ( http://www.insidemacgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=181516 ). But if what you're saying is my complete problem, then wouldn't movement by the mouse be less affected? From my memories, it worked just as badly with my mouse. Then again, maybe I should try it again.

And b switches to walk mode? I never knew that, and I looked everywhere for how to switch, maybe I'm just incompetent.

"It does annoy me, though, that my computer is above the requirements (except on the video card, which is most likely what's killing me), and this is happening--I'm very used to running games on minimums or below minimums, and when I actually have a computer with BETTER specs, it refuses to run."

KOTOR's minimum requirements are to be taken seriously. You just meet the video card requirements, and that's what is hurting you. Your video card has one strike against it because it's an ATI 8500-class card, which is the worst-performing "supported" card as far as KOTOR goes. This class of cards requires quite a bit more CPU horsepower to make up for their weak vertex program support.

I am curious what you mean about KOTOR refusing to run though. As far as I know, it should run (albeit poorly) on pretty much the gimpiest OSX setup you can find.

Right now, Mac gaming is in an interesting place. Mimimum requirements (never mind recommended) for most games have broken the 1GHz barrier and are going to go up steadily over the next year. It's hard to impossible to buy a PC that is slower than 2GHz nowadays, so the 16-month period where G4 CPU speeds didn't increase is finally catching up to us, as most Mac users on average have machines that hover around the 1GHz mark.

"I am curious what you mean about KOTOR refusing to run though. As far as I know, it should run (albeit poorly) on pretty much the gimpiest OSX setup you can find."
Arg, I knew I should have prefaced that--I noticed that after I posted. I meant "run" in the figurative "run well enough to be playable". I could struggle through Neverwinter Nights on my 500mhz G3 (8MB graphics card, when the recommended/minimum was 32MB) by a liberal use of the pause function during battles, but an uncontrollable character is not something I can really work around.

Seriously, one should be able to upgrade consumer Macs' graphics cards--the stuff Apple is putting in both levels is unacceptable and on the consumer level, there's no way to get around it.

Again, there isn't any sort of undocumented "kill-all-extraneous-polygons" command that will get me though the Underworld level? Anything? I'll try almost anything (save a new computer, the one I'm using is already brand-new and isn't even mine... :D )

Well, if I *do* get through that level, even if it's by randomly moving until I hit things, is it one of the worst levels with this, or am I pretty much doomed? With the exceptions of catinas, the game ran quite smoothly (especially compared to a game like JKII or NN on my 500mhz G3 iMac).

And thank you so much for helping me out on this--and I've gotten so much more info from you in half a week then Asypr tech support in a month (then again, I guess tech support might be being a little more diplomatic, not wanting to tell me my eMac is doomed... :) )

Just a side note I thought of to the above post in the "is the underworld the worst level with this, or am I doomed": I *do* have access to faster computers (actually, a G5 tower), but the catch is it's one of my friends, so I couldn't really play the whole game on the machine (we don't spend THAT much time together, and we would want to do multiplayer gaming during most of that time.. :) )--if I could get through the underworld on that machine, would I probably be able to get through the rest of the game with the eMac?

"Again, there isn't any sort of undocumented "kill-all-extraneous-polygons" command that will get me though the Underworld level?"

No, I'm afraid not. The game was designed with only one polygon level of detail for everything (a side-effect of its xbox heritage), so there isn't really a mechanism to trim those down or customize the graphic detail beyond what's in the options already.

"Well, if I *do* get through that level, even if it's by randomly moving until I hit things, is it one of the worst levels with this, or am I pretty much doomed?"

I'm probably not the best person to ask as I haven't played the entire game on a low-end system. I have heard that the levels on the water-world of Manaan are bad, and I thought I'd heard people say that either the Sith academy level or Star Forge were also bad. But I don't know how they compare relative to what you're seeing in the Underworld. You might want to check out the IMG performance threads (look in the RPG & Strategy sub-forum) to find out more.

"(then again, I guess tech support might be being a little more diplomatic, not wanting to tell me my eMac is doomed... :)"

Yeah, I suspect that's probably the case. :)